I will be updating the main layout of the sites over the next few days. Pardon my slowness, but once done, it should work out great for everyone involved...

2 things:
first "bug" occurs for quite long time: when adding description during plugin upload it cuts off special chars, and shows ? instead. Would gladly see a fix for that.

second: as there's a new layout (3rd within 1 year ? : ) make the navigation bar buttons a bit bigger.
At least make them as high as the gray horizontal bar.

edit: forgot to add, have a look at PM box plz

yojoe Wrote:first "bug" occurs for quite long time: when adding description during plugin upload it cuts off special chars, and shows ? instead. Would gladly see a fix for that.

I will look into this...

yojoe Wrote:second: as there's a new layout (3rd within 1 year ? : ) make the navigation bar buttons a bit bigger.
At least make them as high as the gray horizontal bar.

With the Wiki addition, i needed to skin that anyway, and when I added Extend, the theme was just hacked together quickly to get it up there. I have a feeling that this one will stick around for a long time as I am actually doing this the right way... (will make it easier as there is only ONE header file, ONE footer file etc that I will need to edit to make changes going forward)

yojoe Wrote:edit: forgot to add, have a look at PM box plz

Will check now

Hi Chris,

I must say I am a bit disappointed to see where the new site design is heading. After you rejected our design for the site, I was hoping you'd find another way to come up with a proper and professional layout, but what's going online looks very unprofessional and, in my opinion, reflects rather poorly on this great CMS.

I hope you don't mind me being blunt and I am not out to kick up a fuzz, but I you're really taking a step back with the new design instead of moving forward. If the site looked the way it does now when I first landed on it, I definitely wouldn't have downloaded the CMS.

Like I mentioned in our email conversations, I can completely relate to your urge to be involved in the site's design; but if you want GetSimple to make it big, you will need to be able to let go of certain things (we know this is hard) and focus on what's best for GetSimple ...

- Matt

Indeed. I'm dissapointed also about the site design. But maybe you're improving it in the near future? Last one was realy great, this one doesn't realy have a personal look, so people would probably think: "ah just another simple cms". It looks like not a website designer has thought of the design, but it was converted from another template downloaded from a "free template download" site (A lot of those designs look mostly the same).

A big part of every website is the way it is presented. If this template is a good example what I could possibly do with this cms (design wise), I wouldn't go for it. Would you?

Sorry for the somewhat harsh words, but it does reflect my opinion.

@datiswous & @getsimplethemes: I am sorry you guys feel this way. There might be some incremental changes from now on, but overall I like the new design. One major part being the homepage - which I haven't had time to work on yet.

I like it, I like that it's simple, and I like that I like it.

So you have dropped following your branding cut-sheet: http://get-simple.info/data/uploads/getsimple_sheet.pdf ?

-Rob A>

just the primary logo part (if you can say we even ever had a logo). The color scheme and alternate logo are still exactly the same.

The logo part on the site right now may get tweaked in the future, not 100% sure yet.

This site-wide update, while maybe unpopular to many frequent followers, was necessary in many regards:

• I needed a way to easily update the header/footer/sidebar across the whole site. Before this, all updates needed to be made in 10 different places
  
• There never was a footer before
  
• The footer needed updated sitewide to show the sponsorship deal we have with pair Networks
  
• The wiki needed a theme as it was still default DokuWiki style
  
• Extend front-end and Extend back-end were not using the same style, and it wasn't as easy to navigate around the back-end as it should have been
  

That said, the Wiki has been filled out with plenty more documentation, which was always something that has been sorely missing. I would like to invite anyone and everyone to help in that regard too. If you see something missing inside the Wiki, please by all means - add and/or change it.

Obviously you like it; you put it together...

But it worries me a bit that it's apparently about what you like, as opposed to what's best for GetSimple.

It's not the update itself I have a problem with; I think we can all agree it's a good time to get the site's design updated... It's more what it's being updated to. It seems a good time to start presenting GetSimple as a professional and mature CMS; and since the homepage creates the first impression for new visitors; it deservers more attention and a better design... In my opinion it really doesn't do the CMS justice...

Since GetSimple has a great and active community involved in moving forward; why not make the design of the new site a community event as well? We could put up a contest, having everyone interested submit a design after which we could vote for the most popular one. Might be fun and surely we could come up with a great design!

Chris

Seems you been taking a lot of heat lately.

First you get heat by people that think you are not here at the forum often enough to answer their questions
and now the critics are climbing out of the walls about how you have designed the web page for Get Simple.

I personally don't understand these people that are getting something for free for the most part and then complain about it.

Well yes I do understand some of the critics reason for complaining, it is because they are profiting from your work
(or least trying to) by making Themes and Plugins for the Get Simple.
I am going to play the critic myself here (since they are getting paid for what they do) from what I have seen their Themes are not that good.
The themes are bloated with code that the average user of Get Simple would ever need, and to hard for the average user to make changes to.

The nice part about Get Simple is that people that don't have or have very little HTML / CSS / PHP knowledge can put up a pretty nice looking web site
with out a lot of trouble. Get Simple can also be used by a web designer (that is paid for his work) and save time for the routine tasks of web design
and if he/she is paid for his work I would assume he also knows how to code his own Themes and Plugins to do the things that are not already offered by Get Simple.

Chris, there are things that I too wished were different about Get Simple, but I also understand that Get Simple is developed to work for the mass audience
that is looking for a Content Manager so I will either ask in a polite way if it is possible to do with Get Simple or just keep my opinion to myself.
The other option if these people have a true complaint would be to e-mail with you and not bring it to the public forum. I have worked with several Content Manager System over
the last 5 years or so and some were pretty good until some of the community started making waves and treating to develop a fork to the CMS and before long the original CMS suffered
and the forked version never made any headway either.(Because those folks found out their are always critics of their work too.)

I have two request that I like to see with Get Simple and one of those I see is going to happen with the new version of Get Simple.

1) Get Simple really needs a File Manger to upload pictures to web pages. (This is something I think the new version is going to have.)

2) Is it possible to add another area (Maybe two) to the forum?
1) One area for newbies that are slightly or are not very techy . I have seen a lot of questions that were asked by new people that were not answered or if they were
the answer was way over their head. Yes I know the same questions may have been asked multi times and you get tried of answering the same question. (I think the New Wiki will
help here some.)
I think if Get Simple had a newbie area on the forum, the slightly tech could help each other, without having to use the tech argot. The developers could jump in when
they felt they could and wanted to offer assistance.

The other area might be for the developers and off limits to others, to talk back and forth about development of the CMS

Chris, I personally want to thank you for Get Simple, I have been playing with it on a small site I am doing for a small business that I own, and once I feel that I am truly comfortable with
Get Simple and all it can do, I plan to use it on 3 sites that I maintain for a company that I make my daily living from.

Ohhhhhh by the way I like the new site design, it keeps with the theme of Get Simple to K.I.S.S. (Keep it Simple Stupid)



Bob

getsimplethemes Wrote:Obviously you like it; you put it together...

But it worries me a bit that it's apparently about what you like, as opposed to what's best for GetSimple.

It's not the update itself I have a problem with; I think we can all agree it's a good time to get the site's design updated... It's more what it's being updated to. It seems a good time to start presenting GetSimple as a professional and mature CMS; and since the homepage creates the first impression for new visitors; it deservers more attention and a better design... In my opinion it really doesn't do the CMS justice...

Since GetSimple has a great and active community involved in moving forward; why not make the design of the new site a community event as well? We could put up a contest, having everyone interested submit a design after which we could vote for the most popular one. Might be fun and surely we could come up with a great design!

There is nothing wrong with being critical, that's how we move forward and make improvements. And since GetSimple is an open source product and the entire community is involved in making it better, I don't see anything wrong with discussing these matters on the public forums.

Very cheap shots you're taking here at our themes... doesn't help the point you're trying to make. Did you actually purchase one of our themes? If you find something could be better with our themes, then be specific and point out actual flaws... Just claiming they're not good is rather lame.

And since you're new here, pls stop making assumptions about everybody else... You have no idea what we're doing and have done for GetSimple. There is also no point in defending Chris' efforts, nobody is questioning his dedication and efforts in building this great CMS, we're not attacking Chris here so no need to come to his aid...

- Matt

@rfuller - Thanks for the vote of support. You made some very good points and I appreciate your thanks for GS.

@matt - I am not putting the site design to a vote or something of a contest. I like the design as-is, with the only change coming to the homepage whenever I find the time (as i said before). The GS project has been built by the community, but that does not mean that the site needs to be. I don't mind you being critical at all - it comes with the fact that I am the curator of something so public - but you are way off base when you suggest something along the lines that I do not know what's best for GetSimple, simply based on a new site design that you do not like.

I just find it odd that the one, and pretty much only guy that has a problem with the design (that has really spoken out so far) is the one guy that I initially talked to about doing a design before backing out and saying I was going to do it myself. Maybe it's a coincidence, maybe not... just saying though.

Chris

I am not sure if it is my browser that I am using or in the new Get Simple Theme, but the text area are changing to different style fonts randomly.

The header area were the logo for Get Simple is the logo text is over lapping so you can not read it and that is also randomly.

It might be IE?

Bob

can you attach or email me a screenshot? thanks...

Chris,

I do like the new design, however, there are still some flaws:

The new design always shows a horizontal scroll bar in Firefox (3.6.14, Ubuntu) - the reason seems to be the
in #gssw-advertising and #gssw-footer (30px shadow on a 100% div is more than 100% of the width).

Inconsistencies, like if I move the mouse on the getsimple logo, it gets lighter, if I move it on the download link it gets darker.

If I click on Blog or Demo and have set "open new window as tabs" in firefox, and go back to the getsimple tab, Blog/Demo is still marked (this might be a firefox bug?).


And on another topic: using markdown in the plugin descriptions doesn't quite work, e.g. urls, preformated texts and escaping with backslashes. It's impossible to write something like "replace get_component with get_i18n_component" because the _ are interpreted as underline start/end.
Together with the fact that there is no preview and it takes so long until the changes are displayed (why?) in Extend this makes writing instructions quite difficult.

Martin

P.S.: I really liked the two-color orange-black getsimple logo.

Chris

Here is the header during one of 3 different changes.

Text font changes harder to capture, the font changes are much faster.

Bob

mvlcek Wrote:And on another topic: using markdown in the plugin descriptions doesn't quite work, e.g. urls, preformated texts and escaping with backslashes. It's impossible to write something like "replace get_component with get_i18n_component" because the _ are interpreted as underline start/end.
Together with the fact that there is no preview and it takes so long until the changes are displayed (why?) in Extend this makes writing instructions quite difficult.

I had no idea... i will look into this, but since Markdown has been used so long, I am not sure what other options I have at this point. I will look into trying to tweak it...

Sorry you liked the two-tone logo - i didn't mind it - but I wasnt attached. I wanted to use it, but b/c of the dark header it made using the orange text look wierd. Like I said before, Im not 100% satisfied with that part of the new design, so i may revisit it later on. I will take a look at the bugs you and rfuller pointed out soon too. Thanks for helping me debug this new design.

Hi.

Maybe you can make the homepage look better on a 1024x600 screen.
The Logo is a bit much SHOUTING .

btw. I don't think the new design is realy bad. I just liked the one before a lot more.

Maybe you can ad the one before (except the logo) as an optional template.

Matt

With a lot of thought before hand, if I should reply,(I don't want to get into a p***ing match with you) I decide what the h***

First let me address you saying I am new here, well that may be true I have only downloaded and used GS for a short time and I don't post much in the forum unless I think I can help someone else that can benefit from my little bit of knowledge. ( I am not a coder by any stretch of the imagination) But what does my length of time being here have to do with anything? I been here reading posts on the forum for close to a year trying to learn about GS way before I downloaded GS. If time being here has to do with anything then you should not have posted your original message, to someone that has been here since the beginning.
And please spare me the making assumptions on everybody line. I didn't make assumptions on everyone at GS. The use of the line everyone and we is just a way to make it look as if it is more than you with your opinion and you started off with a lot of I's so stick with that instead of making it sound like you speak for everyone at GS.

Now for defending Chris, I wasn't aware I was doing that (not directly anyway) like I said I have used several CMS over the last 5 years and have seen the same thing happen in most of them. Someone always comes in thinking they can do something better and cause a lot of division in the community then treating to Fork the CMS (which has happen here recently and I thought Chris handled that great by just wishing him luck after he said his peace.)

You say I took cheap shots at your/ your company themes without being specific. I did that on purpose since I didn't know if you worked or owned the company that made the themes. That way it was just my opinion and as the old saying goes "opinions are like a**holes everyone has one".

You asked if I have bought one of your themes the answer is no, I did look at your free one and also I did a markup search of your home site you sell from and your home site has 61 errors and 2 warning on it.(Not to impressive since your trying to sell themes from it) The free one was way to bloated for my taste and didn't test much better than your home site.

I have downloaded several themes from Free CSS that you knocked as bad (and you gave no reason for your opinion about Free CSS like you said I did about yours) and all of them had less that 10 errors and no warnings.

Now to be fair I did a markup search of GS since Chris has been working on it and he is showing 30 errors but most of them are changes he has made to the theme recently it looks like and he is still making changes as he finds them.

Now these statements are still my opinions for what they are worth, I just hope I don't get booted from the forum for stating my opinions.


See below the results of both sites.


Your Site
Result: 61 Errors, 2 warning(s)
Address:
Encoding: utf-8 (detect automatically) utf-8 (Unicode, worldwide) utf-16 (Unicode, worldwide) iso-8859-1 (Western Europe) iso-8859-2 (Central Europe) iso-8859-3 (Southern Europe) iso-8859-4 (North European) iso-8859-5 (Cyrillic) iso-8859-6-i (Arabic) iso-8859-7 (Greek) iso-8859-8 (Hebrew, visual) iso-8859-8-i (Hebrew, logical) iso-8859-9 (Turkish) iso-8859-10 (Latin 6) iso-8859-11 (Latin/Thai) iso-8859-13 (Latin 7, Baltic Rim) iso-8859-14 (Latin 8, Celtic) iso-8859-15 (Latin 9) iso-8859-16 (Latin 10) us-ascii (basic English) euc-jp (Japanese, Unix) shift_jis (Japanese, Win/Mac) iso-2022-jp (Japanese, email) euc-kr (Korean) gb2312 (Chinese, simplified) gb18030 (Chinese, simplified) big5 (Chinese, traditional) Big5-HKSCS (Chinese, Hong Kong) tis-620 (Thai) koi8-r (Russian) koi8-u (Ukrainian) iso-ir-111 (Cyrillic KOI-8) macintosh (MacRoman) windows-1250 (Central Europe) windows-1251 (Cyrillic) windows-1252 (Western Europe) windows-1253 (Greek) windows-1254 (Turkish) windows-1255 (Hebrew) windows-1256 (Arabic) windows-1257 (Baltic Rim)
Doctype: HTML5 (detect automatically) HTML5 (experimental) XHTML 1.0 Strict XHTML 1.0 Transitional XHTML 1.0 Frameset HTML 4.01 Strict HTML 4.01 Transitional HTML 4.01 Frameset HTML 3.2 HTML 2.0 ISO/IEC 15445:2000 ("ISO HTML") XHTML 1.1 XHTML + RDFa XHTML Basic 1.0 XHTML Basic 1.1 XHTML Mobile Profile 1.2 XHTML-Print 1.0 XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0 XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0 plus SVG 1.1 MathML 2.0 SVG 1.0 SVG 1.1 SVG 1.1 Tiny SVG 1.1 Basic SMIL 1.0 SMIL 2.0
Root Element: html


Get Simple with new Changes

Result: 30 Errors, 4 warning(s)
Address:
Encoding: utf-8 (detect automatically) utf-8 (Unicode, worldwide) utf-16 (Unicode, worldwide) iso-8859-1 (Western Europe) iso-8859-2 (Central Europe) iso-8859-3 (Southern Europe) iso-8859-4 (North European) iso-8859-5 (Cyrillic) iso-8859-6-i (Arabic) iso-8859-7 (Greek) iso-8859-8 (Hebrew, visual) iso-8859-8-i (Hebrew, logical) iso-8859-9 (Turkish) iso-8859-10 (Latin 6) iso-8859-11 (Latin/Thai) iso-8859-13 (Latin 7, Baltic Rim) iso-8859-14 (Latin 8, Celtic) iso-8859-15 (Latin 9) iso-8859-16 (Latin 10) us-ascii (basic English) euc-jp (Japanese, Unix) shift_jis (Japanese, Win/Mac) iso-2022-jp (Japanese, email) euc-kr (Korean) gb2312 (Chinese, simplified) gb18030 (Chinese, simplified) big5 (Chinese, traditional) Big5-HKSCS (Chinese, Hong Kong) tis-620 (Thai) koi8-r (Russian) koi8-u (Ukrainian) iso-ir-111 (Cyrillic KOI-8) macintosh (MacRoman) windows-1250 (Central Europe) windows-1251 (Cyrillic) windows-1252 (Western Europe) windows-1253 (Greek) windows-1254 (Turkish) windows-1255 (Hebrew) windows-1256 (Arabic) windows-1257 (Baltic Rim)
Doctype: XHTML 1.0 Strict (detect automatically) HTML5 (experimental) XHTML 1.0 Strict XHTML 1.0 Transitional XHTML 1.0 Frameset HTML 4.01 Strict HTML 4.01 Transitional HTML 4.01 Frameset HTML 3.2 HTML 2.0 ISO/IEC 15445:2000 ("ISO HTML") XHTML 1.1 XHTML + RDFa XHTML Basic 1.0 XHTML Basic 1.1 XHTML Mobile Profile 1.2 XHTML-Print 1.0 XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0 XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0 plus SVG 1.1 MathML 2.0 SVG 1.0 SVG 1.1 SVG 1.1 Tiny SVG 1.1 Basic SMIL 1.0 SMIL 2.0
Root Element: html
Root Namespace: http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml



A Theme I am working on that I downloaded from Free CSS

Result: 5 Errors
Address:
Encoding: utf-8 (detect automatically) utf-8 (Unicode, worldwide) utf-16 (Unicode, worldwide) iso-8859-1 (Western Europe) iso-8859-2 (Central Europe) iso-8859-3 (Southern Europe) iso-8859-4 (North European) iso-8859-5 (Cyrillic) iso-8859-6-i (Arabic) iso-8859-7 (Greek) iso-8859-8 (Hebrew, visual) iso-8859-8-i (Hebrew, logical) iso-8859-9 (Turkish) iso-8859-10 (Latin 6) iso-8859-11 (Latin/Thai) iso-8859-13 (Latin 7, Baltic Rim) iso-8859-14 (Latin 8, Celtic) iso-8859-15 (Latin 9) iso-8859-16 (Latin 10) us-ascii (basic English) euc-jp (Japanese, Unix) shift_jis (Japanese, Win/Mac) iso-2022-jp (Japanese, email) euc-kr (Korean) gb2312 (Chinese, simplified) gb18030 (Chinese, simplified) big5 (Chinese, traditional) Big5-HKSCS (Chinese, Hong Kong) tis-620 (Thai) koi8-r (Russian) koi8-u (Ukrainian) iso-ir-111 (Cyrillic KOI-8) macintosh (MacRoman) windows-1250 (Central Europe) windows-1251 (Cyrillic) windows-1252 (Western Europe) windows-1253 (Greek) windows-1254 (Turkish) windows-1255 (Hebrew) windows-1256 (Arabic) windows-1257 (Baltic Rim)
Doctype: XHTML 1.0 Strict (detect automatically) HTML5 (experimental) XHTML 1.0 Strict XHTML 1.0 Transitional XHTML 1.0 Frameset HTML 4.01 Strict HTML 4.01 Transitional HTML 4.01 Frameset HTML 3.2 HTML 2.0 ISO/IEC 15445:2000 ("ISO HTML") XHTML 1.1 XHTML + RDFa XHTML Basic 1.0 XHTML Basic 1.1 XHTML Mobile Profile 1.2 XHTML-Print 1.0 XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0 XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0 plus SVG 1.1 MathML 2.0 SVG 1.0 SVG 1.1 SVG 1.1 Tiny SVG 1.1 Basic SMIL 1.0 SMIL 2.0
Root Element: html
Root Namespace: http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml

getsimplethemes Wrote:There is nothing wrong with being critical, that's how we move forward and make improvements. And since GetSimple is an open source product and the entire community is involved in making it better, I don't see anything wrong with discussing these matters on the public forums.

Very cheap shots you're taking here at our themes... doesn't help the point you're trying to make. Did you actually purchase one of our themes? If you find something could be better with our themes, then be specific and point out actual flaws... Just claiming they're not good is rather lame.

And since you're new here, pls stop making assumptions about everybody else... You have no idea what we're doing and have done for GetSimple. There is also no point in defending Chris' efforts, nobody is questioning his dedication and efforts in building this great CMS, we're not attacking Chris here so no need to come to his aid...

- Matt

I have been reading this topic for a while now and I think Chris has done a great job with all of his replies.

@rfuller A couple things: 1st off, your not gonna get booted from the forum for voicing your opinion. (I ensure you if that was the case, Matt and several others would have been kicked a while back) I also agree with you in the way that I have seen many CMS's forked over the past few years and they never last. I hate to even here talk of forking around here, mainly because I have never worked with / been apart of a CMS that has such great support and community.

2nd I do however think this is not the place to start bashing on others work. Your welcome to have an opinion but we don't need to discuss is on this topic. Your welcome to email Matt and discuss your opinions or comment on one of his topics in the Threads section. This topic is specifically regarding our site makeover.

@matt I respect you for speaking your feelings regarding our site. However you do need to understand we support a wide variety of user not just you. I also ensure you that the length of some ones forum members ship does not justify their ability to post on the forums; you are rather new yourself. (Notice both of your titles are the same?) I hate to break it to you, but when I see your themes the first thing that comes to my mind is template monster.. This is my opinion, but I think your main reason for disliking the theme is you were not chosen to redesign the site.. Yes I may be completely wrong but that's how its coming across to me.. And if you truly would have never downloaded the CMS because of the site design that shows you judge a book by the cover,
and to be honest that's not a good way to go about life.

Now for my personal opinion, I think the new theme looks plenty professional and simple. All of the different pages flow smoothly and (correct me if I'm wrong) it gave more room for advertisers which will assist in the continued development of GetSimple. Overall I think it was a success.

Matthew

You are correct it was out of line to bash someone else work.
Lord knows I still have much to learn about web design and not really qualified to judge others work.

Bob

OWS_Matthew Wrote:I have been reading this topic for a while now and I think Chris has done a great job with all of his replies.

@rfuller A couple things: 1st off, your not gonna get booted from the forum for voicing your opinion. (I ensure you if that was the case, Matt and several others would have been kicked a while back) I also agree with you in the way that I have seen many CMS's forked over the past few years and they never last. I hate to even here talk of forking around here, mainly because I have never worked with / been apart of a CMS that has such great support and community.

2nd I do however think this is not the place to start bashing on others work. Your welcome to have an opinion but we don't need to discuss is on this topic. Your welcome to email Matt and discuss your opinions or comment on one of his topics in the Threads section. This topic is specifically regarding our site makeover.

@matt I respect you for speaking your feelings regarding our site. However you do need to understand we support a wide variety of user not just you. I also ensure you that the length of some ones forum members ship does not justify their ability to post on the forums; you are rather new yourself. (Notice both of your titles are the same?) I hate to break it to you, but when I see your themes the first thing that comes to my mind is template monster.. This is my opinion, but I think your main reason for disliking the theme is you were not chosen to redesign the site.. Yes I may be completely wrong but that's how its coming across to me.. And if you truly would have never downloaded the CMS because of the site design that shows you judge a book by the cover,
and to be honest that's not a good way to go about life.

Now for my personal opinion, I think the new theme looks plenty professional and simple. All of the different pages flow smoothly and (correct me if I'm wrong) it gave more room for advertisers which will assist in the continued development of GetSimple. Overall I think it was a success.

Couple things:

1. Firefox always has a bottom scroll bar with about 20px of white space on the right when you
scroll over. (See attached)

2. What would you think about an image pop-up for the screen shots?

OWS_Matthew Wrote:Couple things:

1. Firefox always has a bottom scroll bar with about 20px of white space on the right when you
scroll over. (See attached)

2. What would you think about an image pop-up for the screen shots?

1. responsible for this scrollbar in FX is

2. a'la lightbox ? novadays I almost completely forgot about other methods :/

Got the FF problem fixed... Good point on the screenshots - they need replaced as the control panel changed slightly with 3.0 - so new screenshots are in order asap.

I am still struggling with the IE bug that rfuller pointed out. That and the homepage is still due to be replaced... still a little work is needed, but we are getting there...

Chris

I got to thinking about the screen shot I sent you from my home computer were I use IE8, and thought I check it at work. ( forgot at work I was using IE7 ----- Yuckkkkkkkkkk)

I got our IT guy to finally give me admin rights so I could install some items I needed. (That was like pulling teeth. You know IT people don't like giving up any Admin. responsibilities to anyone.)

Now that I have IE8 on work computer I can not get Get Simple web site to replicate what I was seeing from my home computer, so guess the problem is on my home computer. I also checked in Firefox and the site looks great there.

So guess problem is solved for Get Simple, but I got to figure out what is causing that problem on home computer.

Bob