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2020-07-11, 18:45:40
Well... I think that bloatware is a very relative term. One man's bloatware, another man's just the right level of abstraction or usability. I think that's a very limited view. There are a lot more factors than just the size of the library to consider, otherwise you risk getting tunnel vision.
Hmm, according to your statement, practically everything that has a certain degree of abstraction can be bloatware.
Let's take a closer look on it. In some of your earlier examples I have seen code like this:
Your browser doesn't need an Escape Sequence ("\n"), and developer console doesn't need it either, it automatically adds a line break at the end to make your code look good. It does not have any significant functionality, right? So if you add a few of these "\n" to your script it will also become bloatware?
Let's see another example. The one developer writes his variable names like this:
If you have 10000 lines of code and many large variables like this, does your script become bloatware?
There is a different way, another developer can do it as follows:
Your code will be much smaller, but unfortunately also badly readable. So you get some space at the expense of usability (If I had the choice, I would definitely choose the first option).
There are countless examples that say that size is not everything.
Next, let's take a look at your arguments:
Okay, um... What if I use 50- or even 60% of its functions, can I use it then, won't it become bloatware? Or better said: At what percentage of the used functionality does a framework not become bloatware? From your point of view, practically every library/framework is bloatware, since you usually use only a part of its functions. Sometimes, even the complete programming language like PHP is bloatware. Example, if you want to call a website and only want to make a simple "if" and "else" queries, but the PHP interpreter on the server must start as a process. Notice anything?
Not only, there are many application possibilities. Be it just the time where you can save by using frameworks. Even if you don't want to reinvent the wheel and use the already existing functions. Or simply because you are not really a great designer and just want to have a basic framework to adapt it to your personal style with minimal effort etc.
Fine, but UIkit, Bootstrap, etc is more than just a grid, it offers much more functionality and if you use it you can often avoid having to include jQuery or custom JS, which in turn compensates for the ridiculous few KB of size on the server.
As you can see, size is not everything, there are more important things to consider.
To me, a bloatware just means something that grows with time and loses its original aptitude, size or functionality.
Windows is a good example for that. I am not quite sure where we stand on that (not used Windows for a very-very long time) but, in the past, it was really bloatware for me: A few months after the installation, the system was still running "okay" (so no bloatware yet), after that the system became larger, messy and slow and almost didn't work anymore (now it has become f*g bloatware) ;-)
Hmm, according to your statement, practically everything that has a certain degree of abstraction can be bloatware.
Let's take a closer look on it. In some of your earlier examples I have seen code like this:
PHP Code:
echo "<a href=" . '"' ........ ">" . "\n";
Your browser doesn't need an Escape Sequence ("\n"), and developer console doesn't need it either, it automatically adds a line break at the end to make your code look good. It does not have any significant functionality, right? So if you add a few of these "\n" to your script it will also become bloatware?
Let's see another example. The one developer writes his variable names like this:
PHP Code:
var arrivalDateTimeStamp = ...
If you have 10000 lines of code and many large variables like this, does your script become bloatware?
There is a different way, another developer can do it as follows:
PHP Code:
var adts = ...
Your code will be much smaller, but unfortunately also badly readable. So you get some space at the expense of usability (If I had the choice, I would definitely choose the first option).
There are countless examples that say that size is not everything.
Next, let's take a look at your arguments:
(2020-07-11, 07:04:27)Felix Wrote: `why would I load a 130 kb library and then only need 5% of it's classes for a website ?`
Okay, um... What if I use 50- or even 60% of its functions, can I use it then, won't it become bloatware? Or better said: At what percentage of the used functionality does a framework not become bloatware? From your point of view, practically every library/framework is bloatware, since you usually use only a part of its functions. Sometimes, even the complete programming language like PHP is bloatware. Example, if you want to call a website and only want to make a simple "if" and "else" queries, but the PHP interpreter on the server must start as a process. Notice anything?
(2020-07-11, 07:04:27)Felix Wrote: `uikit, bootstrap, etc, are only useful for coding conformity in a team of coders`
Not only, there are many application possibilities. Be it just the time where you can save by using frameworks. Even if you don't want to reinvent the wheel and use the already existing functions. Or simply because you are not really a great designer and just want to have a basic framework to adapt it to your personal style with minimal effort etc.
(2020-07-11, 07:04:27)Felix Wrote: `one man shows and freelancers will certainly choose something bloat free, super flexible and fast`
Fine, but UIkit, Bootstrap, etc is more than just a grid, it offers much more functionality and if you use it you can often avoid having to include jQuery or custom JS, which in turn compensates for the ridiculous few KB of size on the server.
As you can see, size is not everything, there are more important things to consider.
To me, a bloatware just means something that grows with time and loses its original aptitude, size or functionality.
Windows is a good example for that. I am not quite sure where we stand on that (not used Windows for a very-very long time) but, in the past, it was really bloatware for me: A few months after the installation, the system was still running "okay" (so no bloatware yet), after that the system became larger, messy and slow and almost didn't work anymore (now it has become f*g bloatware) ;-)
